This team is going nowhere with this pitching! Time to trade Berkman, Lee (if possible), Tejada (who would take him?) and get what we can.
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Time to Reload
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 Scott Hockenberry |
Time to Reload |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 2817 (04/19/2008 6:43 AM) Astros Fan |
Reload or Stay the course? (Result) |
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Bance Lerkman |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 895 (04/19/2008 7:12 AM) Astros Fan |
In April? We've had a shortstop here in Houston that can hit for exactly 16 games. Can we please keep Tejada?! We aren't going to win very many
games, but this is the first time since I've started watching Astro baseball that we have a legitimate power threat from both the catcher and shortstop
position...either one for that matter. It would take a miracle for this team to finish anywhere above .500. The starting pitching is just too awful. The
best thing to do would be to hand Sampson his papers and hope Bourn, Pence, and Towles develop to give us something fun to watch next season.
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Clack |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 13641 (04/19/2008 8:31 AM) Astros Fan |
Can we forget the talk of trading Berkman and Lee? It isn't going to happen. Forget about it. Berkman has stated that he doesn't want to play
anywhere but Texas, and he will not waive his no trade clause. Lee probably feels the same way, but even if he didn't, no other team is going to trade
anything of value for Carlos Lee as long as they will be on the hook for the $90 or so million dollars left on his contract. Oswalt has a no trade clause, and
even if he waived it, this is probably the worst time to get any value in a trade for him....when everybody is talking about Oswalt's "decline."
Like Bance said, why would you trade Tejada? Who do the Astros have to play shortstop, Tomas Perez? I still think this team can end up .500 on the season,
but Cooper has a lot of tough work and tough decisions ahead of him. I don't know if he is up to it.
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Flastrohs |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 15921 (04/19/2008 8:35 AM) Astros Fan |
You can't trade those 3 or no one would show up at MMP. I understand what you're saying though...play for the future. The way their playing it makes
sense, but give it til June or July. But...it ain't gonna happen.
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Skalz |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 622 (04/19/2008 10:00 AM) Astros Fan |
Stay the course for now. Berkman, Lee, Oswalt and Matsui have no trade clauses. How exactly do you trade them?
I think the Astros will play some better baseball at some point. I hope it's sooner rather than later. The schedule has been tough so far too. San Diego (missed playoffs by a one game playoff) Chicago (playoffs) St. Louis (starting 2008 hot) Florida (not good, but hey this was a series win) Philadelphia (playoffs) Colorado (World series) Hopefully the team gets a win tonight with home Wandy pitching. |
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rdkapp |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1816 (04/19/2008 1:04 PM) Astros Fan |
It's way too early to even ask the question. And, even if it wasn't too early, you have the no-trade clauses and other factors already stated, which
would make it virtually impossible..
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Phenomenal Smith |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1259 (04/19/2008 1:07 PM) |
This is why I was against the Lee contract and thought Wade's moves were just a bunch of chicanery. Y'all hated me for it, but I called like I saw it.
Check out my 1986 Strat-o-matic team with
Billy Doran, Glenn Davis, Kevin Bass, Bob Knepper, and Alan Ashby
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Dak05 |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1127 (04/19/2008 1:16 PM) Astros Fan |
Backup the truck!
Fold up the tents. Time to tear down that moldy eyesore downtown. Close up the shop. It's been a good run. Time to say adieu. Who needs an mlb team (if you want to call them that) in town anyways? bring me AAA with wacky promotions and cheap food. i think the rice owls scored more runs in a weekend this year than the stros have all year... |
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Scott Hockenberry |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 2818 (04/19/2008 1:56 PM) Astros Fan |
Phenomenal Smith wrote: I'm with you Phenomenal.... stupid moves have tied the hands of this orgnaization and now we have a bad fielding fatass in left, and older then the hills (I don't believe the only 2 bullshit) shortstop and someone of value we could get something for (Berkman) and we can't trade him. No trade clauses are bullshit and often are waived in the right circumstances, I wouldn't let them prevent me from entertaining offers. I know it's early to ask the question, but hey... this team sucks... and the moves to "win now" will further pan out as being horrible. |
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Phenomenal Smith |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1264 (04/19/2008 2:05 PM) |
I don't want to be too negative though. I do think if given enough time and enough freedom, Wade can rebuild the farm system. So, while I'm very
pessimistic about the next couple of seasons, I do have some long term optimism (assuming no meddling from Drayton McLane).
Check out my 1986 Strat-o-matic team with
Billy Doran, Glenn Davis, Kevin Bass, Bob Knepper, and Alan Ashby
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bumpin99 |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 129 (04/19/2008 2:07 PM) AAA |
whoever is voting to trade berkman, lee and tejada right now are HIGH. Just plain Stupid its only a couple weeks into the season.
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 Bob Hulsey |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 3447 (04/19/2008 2:29 PM) Astros Fan |
I will say that no-trade clauses are often leverage for the player not to be traded to a situation they don't like. If, for example, Roy O was being sent
to a team expected to go deep into the postseason, he'd probably waive the no-trade for some sort of fee (say $500,000 to $1 mil paid by the new team)
rather than stay on a last-place team. If, on the other, Wade made a deal with, say, the Rays that was drop-dead gorgeous for the Astros but not such a good
deal for Roy, Roy would have the leverage to veto the deal.
The no-trade clause only means the player has more control over where he might be sent and how much of a bribe he'd get for waiving the clause. They're still tradeable if they want to be.
"Astro Fan Since They Were First Called Astros."
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Bob Hulsey |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 3448 (04/19/2008 2:35 PM) Astros Fan |
Phenomenal Smith wrote:
Don't take it personally. We can love you and hate some of your viewpoints. It would be a dull board if everyone agreed about everything. The problem comes in knowing what battles are worth fighting and which ones are better to let go of. I still can't stand the color scheme, the pinstripes, the fact that the new ballpark is usually too warm and too LOUD or that the parking situation is ripe for rip-offs but I try not to make a constant drumbeat about it because, obviously, a lot of folks disagree with me.
"Astro Fan Since They Were First Called Astros."
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Phenomenal Smith |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1266 (04/19/2008 2:57 PM) |
Yeah. I was just joking about the hating part anyway
Check out my 1986 Strat-o-matic team with
Billy Doran, Glenn Davis, Kevin Bass, Bob Knepper, and Alan Ashby
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bsb8532 |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 643 (04/20/2008 9:31 PM) Astros Fan |
You have to ride it out to the break. I think that ultimately we'll be about 10 games back at the break, which should be enough to warrant gutting the
team (especially given that we already have aging superstars).
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RyanED |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 28920 (04/21/2008 6:49 AM) Golden Boy |
The Astros are 5.5 games back of first place right now, but I think they'll be 3.5 games back of first place ( maybe a game or two closer ) by the all-star
break.
Once our hitting and bullpen come around to the point of being a factor on a consistent basis, I think the Astros will be the team to beat in the NL Central... Better than the Cardinals, Cubs and Brewers. In the mean time, we can pass the Reds and Pirates in the standings during this week. It's going to be a long season ahead but it's important the Astros don't fall out of the division race, which is why I want them to starting winning a lot of games right now.
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Lisa Gray |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 75 (04/21/2008 9:50 AM) |
here we are with the gutting the team thing again
berkman has said more than once, ON THE RECORD, that he will refuse ANY trade to any team for any money. he will NOT leave houston. does berkman strike you as the kind of guy who just says political bull durham crap for more money? lee is going to get paid 18.5 mill a year for the next 4 years. He's big and fat and slow and he's GOT to be the absolute WORST LF in the bigs. who knows if he even could play first. now, it is all good and well to say - get rid of him. so who exactly do you think is going to give up top prospects for FOUR years of this guy for 18.5 mill a year? oh yeah, and HOW much of that contract do you think drayton would be willing to eat? we ARE talking about drayton you know. and also, lee is one of the team's popular players, remember? now oswalt would agree to be traded - he's said so, but it would be to a contender. so let's hear who you think would take him and he would go to and who could we get for him? who do you think is going to come to the ballpark to see a team play ball when your ace pitcher is wandy and you have a bunch of #4 or 5 guys and a bullpen whose best guy is 40 year old brocail? whose stars are michael bourn and his .212 BA and hunter pence who swings at sliders away like his mentor, that "good guy" biggio and shwos no sign of recovering his previous form? (remember jason lane?) and there is NO end in sight of suckage? oh yeah - forgot- as for te-roider/te-liar, who exactly is gonna take him? we were his ONLY suitors when baltimore offered him, remember? the only discussion was who else they were gonna get besides luke scott |
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Bob Hulsey |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 3456 (04/21/2008 12:09 PM) Astros Fan |
The Cardinals were after Tejada too but their farm system was even more barren than ours.
"Astro Fan Since They Were First Called Astros."
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danocaster |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 123 (04/21/2008 2:01 PM) |
Lisa Gray wrote: Really?? You think Hunter Pence = Jason Lane? You don't think Hunter can get it together?
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RyanED |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 28925 (04/21/2008 2:15 PM) Golden Boy |
bsb8532 wrote: Being 10 or more games back of first place is only going to happen if the offense and bullpen don't start to perform better on a consistent basis.
Starting pitching wise, I think the Astros have enough with Oswalt, Chacon and a feast or famine Backe. This is also taking into account a shaky at times
Sampson and an injury-laden Wandy Rodriguez who is being replaced by Jack Cassel.
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bsb8532 |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 645 (04/21/2008 2:37 PM) Astros Fan |
Ryan,
I think the offense and bullpen will perform better (namely Pence, Valverde, and Villareal), but I also think our rotation is going to get worse (namely Chacon and Wandy). All in all, as I felt before the season, we're around an 80 win team. That's not terrible, but its not playoff worthy. Considering our payroll will likely go up with no changes next season (Berkman, Oswalt, Lee, and Valverde will have increases) and our production will like go down (Tejada, Lee, Berkman, and Oswalt can't be expected to perform at the same level hitting in the 32-34 ranges) and you have a formula for a 75-80 win team again. Now, if Drayton is willing to commit another $10-15 million in payroll, which is doubtful, then we can try to reload again next year. I just think that if we're going to more or less keep the same team then that's pretty much pointless. As for who you can trade, right now I'd say Oswalt, Tejada, and Valverde would be the likely candidates. Berkman is the face of the team and, more importantly, its more realistic to expect solid production from a 35 year old 1B than a 35 year old SS (Tejada) or SP (Oswalt). Lee is untradeable for the aforementioned reasons, at least until the 4th year when he has the no trade lifted and could be dealt as a DH on a 2 year lease. Obviously Oswalt and Valverde will have to perform better, something I seem likely, and all 3 of those guys could be desireable to some teams in contention with serious prospects (BoSox would like Oswalt or Valverde, Dodgers could use Oswalt or Tejada, Braves could use Valverde or Oswalt, etc.). I don't agree with change for the sake of change, but I'd have to think someone is lying if they claim we couldn't get a nice package for any of those 3 guys. |
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