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Toxic? Chacon Removed from Rotation! Now He's Suspended and wants to be Traded
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 Flastrohs |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 19043 (06/26/2008 2:08 PM) Astros Fan |
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PatHajovsky |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1338 (06/26/2008 2:16 PM) Astros Fan |
I'm with Hulsey. I'm not sure I can believe anything Chacon says about this matter. He's done in baseball, period. He'll never pitch for anyone
other than an indy league again.
As for Wade and the use of expletives, if that's a DQ charateristic for a baseball man then you better damn well fire about 80% of the current group working in MLB. A GM cursed at a player that was disrespecting him? I'm breathing air? Jiminy Christmas, even Chuck Tanner would've yelled at the guy. Clack, you must be taking a much broader view of acceptable behavior than I am. Shawn Chacon is obviously a troubled soul and I hope he grows up over this, because he sure as hell hasn't grown up playing baseball. As for the contract, all MLB standard player agreements have a morals clause, and that can certainly be invoked here, no question. But, that would just as certainly bring an automatic grievance from the players' union. (I know, Astrogirl, insert righteous indignation at unions sticking up for their undesirables here.) In turn, that will drag this whole event on for months - both in and out of the media glare. In turn, it could bring a civil lawsuit from the player, rightly or wrongly, at being forced to play in an abusive work environment and breach of contract. The resulting time, effort and legal fees at dealing with the matter, let alone airing dirty laundry in public and thus branding your team in some players' minds as anarchical and anti-player, lend itself to my prediction that the Astros will DFA Chacon or simply release him, whichever the contract permits, and then pay him whatever the contract calls for. Then he quietly goes away and the team goes on about its business. It's the same result as if Chacon had stunk it up for the whole season rather than just the last month or so, which was your maximum downside risk in signing him in the first place. I would also expect Wade to address the team regarding the matter, and I'd be a little disappointed if he didn't. |
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Flastrohs |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 19044 (06/26/2008 2:17 PM) Astros Fan |
Justice said....
"Maybe this moment is a reflection of how far a once successful franchise has fallen."..... "Once upon a time, the Astros were Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio. They played the game a certain way. They represented professionalism and winning. Now with a farm system in disarray and a major league roster that's a patchwork of pieces from other organizations, the Astros are an absolute mess." 
And.... "Wade took a $2 million gamble on Chacon because he was desperate. He hoped Chacon would be productive on the field and behave off the field. He was productive for a while, but things began to come apart when he threw a tantrum on the mound in Milwaukee a couple of weeks ago.".................. The game where he got the first 2 outs and then had a meltdown....I thought there was more to him coming out after 1 inning. Great signing Ed. 
Great signing of Wade, Drayton.
This team is a mess. |
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Clack |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 14583 (06/26/2008 2:17 PM) Astros Fan |
Fox Sports' Rosenthal takes Wade to task for the way he handled the Chacon situation, saying he can't imagine any other GM in baseball doing the same
thing (yelling and cursing at a player in front of his teammates). He thinks it's appropriate for McLane to say that Chacon will never play for the Astros
again, but he feels that there is more to the clubhouse problems:
But the Astros are mistaken if they think that their issues begin and end with one disgruntled, out-of-control pitcher. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8284734/Wade-really-needs-to-look-in-the-mirror |
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Flastrohs |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 19045 (06/26/2008 2:21 PM) Astros Fan |
Clack wrote: I agree...Wade didn't deserve getting choked, but the way he handle it was wrong. Players are different now and treating them like you're their
father, won't work. At least with Chacon, it didn't. Wade may need to go. I'd love to have Hunsicker back. Drayton's biggest mistake...losing
him.
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Flastrohs |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 19046 (06/26/2008 2:28 PM) Astros Fan |
Rsoenthal said....
"When a manager summons a player to his office, there should be no question - the player goes. But Cooper clearly has lost the respect of some of his players while his team has lost 19 of its last 25 games."............ MEMO TO DRAYTON: You should have hired a proven winner outside of the organization as your manager. And the GM signing of Wade doesn't appear to be too smart a signing. |
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Flastrohs |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 19047 (06/26/2008 2:34 PM) Astros Fan |
Reading some of the comments by readers in the Rosenthal article, Ed Wade isn't thought very highly of.
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rdkapp |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1992 (06/26/2008 2:39 PM) Astros Fan |
I just heard a caller from NY named George (no, not Steinbrenner) on the afternoon sports talk show on KILT 610 AM, who claimed to be the nephew of current
Phillies GM, Pat Gillick, and in the know on Astros' GM Ed Wade and this incident with Shawn Chacon. He had zero kind words for Ed Wade. In fact, he used
some humorous nickname (which I currently don't recall) for Wade that doesn't paint a rosy picture of him, and said that is how Phillies' fans
refer to him. He said the Phillies and their fans are not surprised at all by this, and he said he was surprised that neither Pat Burrell, Ryan Howard, nor
______________ (I forgot the name), didn't do this a few years ago to Wade. He said Phillies' fans are clamoring for the Phillies to sign Chacon the
minute he's released by the Astros. He also said that if the Yankees sign Chacon, he will personally take Chacon out for a steak dinner at Morton's.
Again, I'm not condoning anything Shawn Chacon did, nor am I taking his description as the gospel truth, but this incident is shining a bad light on our GM and the Astros' franchise. Toxic? I'm beginning to think so, and I think some heads (more than Chacon's which is a given) need to roll. Edit: Just heard a replay on the Ed Wade nickname. It was "Zippy the Chimp," with the further description that Wade would show up at the Phillies' clubhouse on the 1st and 15th to pick up his check with a mask and a gun.
Last Edited By: rdkapp
06/26/2008 2:49 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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PatHajovsky |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1339 (06/26/2008 2:48 PM) Astros Fan |
I can't help it, but the movie "No Country for Old Men" keeps popping into my mind about this turn of events.
Chacon is the Javier Bardem character. Wade is the Josh Brolin character. Drayton is the Tommy Lee Jones character. And, the most unfortunately, the fans are the innocent wife who gets it at the end. |
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barzilla |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 4643 (06/26/2008 3:27 PM) Astros Fan |
Sorry folks, I was out trying to better my employment possibilities like Chacon should be doing at this point. Here is my take on the situation:
1) Craig Roberts and other Houston media luminaries said they don't remember anything like this happening in Houston sports history. So, we are in unchartered waters. 2) I think the suspension was done to allow the league to make its own judgement on a suspension (which should be forthcoming). The last thing that should happen is for Chacon to pull this stunt and then end up getting what he wants. The Astros shouldn't release him until the league hands down a more universal suspension. 3) As for the recoup of money, jail time, ect. I think Wade will try to minimize this as much as possible so no charges will be coming I'm sure. The obvious parallel is the Sprewell case. Sprewell was suspended for the season by the league and the Warriors recouped the remaining portion of his salary. The suspension and delay in releasing him smacks of the Astros putting all their ducks in a row to make a moral turpitude claim fairly easy. 4) More than anything, I remember what happened to P.J. Carlisimo in that exchange. He barely got another NBA head job last year and I'd hate to see the same happen to Wade. However, both situations indicate some wrongdoing by management. This gets to me to the run and gun battle over Wade's role. I think we should reiterate the fact that we are going on Chacon's word. However, given that Chacon admitted to choking his boss, I think his side has some merit. If I were in his shoes, I would ask him to come into the manager's office after he was done eating (after refusing the first two times). If he refused to go I would suspend him for insubordination. I agree that management shouldn't cuss out employees or air their dirty laundry in public. I must admit, I don't have near the machismo that Wade does apparently. I've never cussed out a player, student, or employer. Sure, I may have uttered an occasional colorful metaphor around a fellow staff member when it was only us, but that's the point. There's a time and place for everything. Check out my new blog at http://commons.chron.com/barzilla |
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Clack |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 14584 (06/26/2008 3:36 PM) Astros Fan |
I think we should reiterate the fact that we are going on Chacon's word.As for Chacon's claim that Wade yelled and cursed at him prior to the incident, I think that appears to be true. McLane said that Chacon's accounts of events appeared to be consistent with similar descriptions of the events given by witnesses. Furthermore, Wade's history of engaging in fits of angry cursing and yelling in Philadelphia makes it believable too. |
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 Bob Hulsey |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 4056 (06/26/2008 4:04 PM) Astros Fan |
I agree that management shouldn't cuss out employees or air their dirty laundry in public. I must admit, I don't have near the machismo that Wade does apparently. I've never cussed out a player, student, or employer. But Scott, you're employed essentially by the government which is a whole different thing than a private business, particularly one where the workplace is 100% men. Cursing and crude sexual references are commonplace in that atmosphere. It's so commonplace that most people in a locker room pay it no attention. It's just an entirely different atmosphere than a principal's office or a high school gym.
"We don't do anything easy. We're the Astros." - Craig Biggio
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Flastrohs |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 19048 (06/26/2008 4:09 PM) Astros Fan |
Bob Hulsey wrote: But to do what Wade did in front of other players? Even if Chacon wouldn't have come with me to the managers office, I wouldn't have done what Wade
did in front of others.
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Flastrohs |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 19049 (06/26/2008 4:35 PM) Astros Fan |
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rdkapp |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1993 (06/26/2008 5:02 PM) Astros Fan |
The Astros (Wade, Cooper, and McLane) held a press conference at 3:30. It was aired on KILT 610AM. Wade opened and spoke of all the incidents that led up to
yesterday's altercation, including a few occurrences of insubordination toward Cooper and pitching coach Dewey Robinson (in-game, on the mound). If all
that he described was true, the Astros were being very patient and more than accomodating to him. Most employees would have been fired for less. Chacon
sounds like a piece of work. It's a shame the Astros weren't aware of these tendencies before they signed him, or if they were aware, it's a shame
they signed him anyway.
As for yesterday's altercation, Wade claimed that he remained calm through repeated requests to Chacon to attend the meeting in Cooper's office. According to Wade, he did not raise his voice or use curse words until Chacon told Wade that he could address him in the lunchroom in front of his teammates. At that point, Wade said he raised his voice and said "look in the bleeping mirror," and that's when the physical stuff occurred. After insisting that he didn't berate Chacon or use any other curse words, Wade later admitted that further cursing may have occurred after Chacon grabbed him and threw him down, but insisted that before then, his "bleeping mirror" statement was the only instance of yelling or use of a curse word. Due to an alleged recording of the altercation by a digital voice recorder belonging to ESPN's Jeff Pearlman (yes, the same guy that was famous for recording John Rocker on the NY subway), Wade's veracity is being called into question. Here's Pearlman's story on the incident, including a summary of what's on his digital voice recorder. Finally, Wade also announced that the Astros have placed Chacon on waivers, and if he clears waivers (due to end on Monday), he will be released without pay. Wade said that the Astros cleared this move through MLB. This is turning into a circus. |
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Flastrohs |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 19050 (06/26/2008 5:12 PM) Astros Fan |
Rotoworld on the EX-Astro....
"Astros requested waivers on RHP Shawn Chacon for the purpose of giving him his unconditional release.
There's little doubt that Chacon will clear waivers. The Astros are doing him a favor by releasing him when they certainly could have justified keeping
him on suspension for an indefinite period."
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Bob Hulsey |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 4057 (06/26/2008 5:15 PM) Astros Fan |
I think Pearlman is trying to be funny which calls into question the veracity of whether he had a digital recorder or what it contained. When you start your
column comparing Ed Wade to Malcolm X, it is hard to take the rest of it seriously. I wouldn't.
"We don't do anything easy. We're the Astros." - Craig Biggio
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Bob Hulsey |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 4058 (06/26/2008 5:21 PM) Astros Fan |
A red flag flew up for me back in the spring when Chacon said he joined the Astros because he wanted the chance to be managed by an African-American because he
felt he'd be respected (as opposed to being managed by, say, Joe Torre). But we saw what happened as soon as that African-American manager chose to
"disrepect" him. It seems like Chacon has major problems dealing with authority. He should have chosen a profession where you aren't answerable
to several layers of management.
Say, how is Livan Hernandez doing now? (he asks sarcastically)
"We don't do anything easy. We're the Astros." - Craig Biggio
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The Ausmus LongBall |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 1051 (06/26/2008 5:22 PM) Astros Fan |
Flastrohs wrote:It seems to me that when a club has a couple of straight-laced, do-gooder types on the team and they can't get over the top to win it all the media will come down on the ball club for not signing guys with fire and high-intensity. Yet, when you get a couple of personalities in the club house finally people try to reflect upon the "good old days" that never brought us a championship and play it up as how it is all falling down around them. This isn't new, this isn't a surprise, this is where we've been heading for the last couple of years. Ed Wade aside, Chacon might still have been on this ballclub and demoted for his recent performances and tantrums. What then? Chacon would have probably gone off on someone else or been a jack-ass in the clubhouse and in the media until he was given the trade he was clamoring for. The Astros took a chance and it didn't pan out. Oh well, now they move on. We could be locked up with someone else for more money and it be even worse. Anyway, the more I look back on the history of the club and the path it has taken I think about the circumstances under which Hunsicker left and how things have transpired since that time. For better or for worse we are where we are today because of the owner of this team. The management changes at the GM and team level, the pitching and batting coach changes, all of it has provided very little to right this ship. The GMs did what they could with given what they had to work with and some were much worse than others. I don't think a rookie manager is the right fit for this mix on this ballclub and what they say they are attempting to accomplish. An inexperienced rookie skipper taking this team to the World Series? What have we all been smoking? Look at our farm system, how its been gutted and never replenished. We've had GMs making trades giving away parts of our system for years now and the Astros never took the steps to replace the pieces they'd traded away. Drayton refused to go above Bud Selig's suggested signing cap for draftees and where has the left them? Was there no sort of plan for restocking the talent level that was moved elsewhere? Where is the man accountable for the overall direction of this ballclub and why is he not having his feet held to the fire for the direction this ballclub has taken over the course of the last three GMs? What about the rest of the front office? Has everyone sat back with the mouth shut afraid to put their ass on the line to make a suggestion about how to turn things around? We knew things were going to be bad and now they are. Drayton McClane needs to "look in the bleeping mirror.", right Ed? |
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Bob Hulsey |
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Astros Fan
Posts: 4059 (06/26/2008 5:31 PM) Astros Fan |
Flastrohs wrote:
And neither would I. My point is that everyone, even managers, launch f-bombs in the locker room and that shouldn't be an excuse for Chacon to go postal. We're talking about adults in an adult environment. I'm sure almost all managers know to dress down their employees behind closed doors. Chacon obviously knew what was coming and refused to go. As I mentioned before, at that point I would have declared him suspended, asked him to get dressed and leave the locker room. My next step would have been to bring security over and see that he changed and was escorted out of the locker room in a reasonable amount of time.
"We don't do anything easy. We're the Astros." - Craig Biggio
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