It's offically time to sell.....

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zachdevil	It's offically time to sell.....	Lead	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 514 (07/21/2008 11:23 PM) ALL-STAR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Tonight pretty much was the cue to get the ball rolling. This team is going nowhere, as the Pirates continue to beat up on Houston. Here's what I'm asking of the board. How do you get better? It's clearly time to sell. I want people to come up with trades that make sense for the Astros. Go find other teams minor league systems and scout a few players you like then come up with an idea of a trade. Let's see what we come up with. You can come with major league ready players to, but make it make sense. I'm going to come up with a few as I look around the minors to see what some of these teams have. I say nobody is off limits either, if you think Berkman can be traded, then what's the price in return and what are you looking to get? I'm curious to see what types of GM talent we have on this board. Happy hunting.
Dak05		#1	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 1272 (07/21/2008 11:34 PM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	ummm... baseball tonight just said the astros are in discussion to get randy wolf from the phillies.... why? and for what? but berkman has to stay as he won't get you anywhere near equal value...
James A46		#2	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 2521 (07/21/2008 11:34 PM) ALL-STAR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	zachdevil wrote: Tonight pretty much was the cue to get the ball rolling. This team is going nowhere, as the Pirates continue to beat up on Houston. Here's what I'm asking of the board. How do you get better? It's clearly time to sell. I want people to come up with trades that make sense for the Astros. Go find other teams minor league systems and scout a few players you like then come up with an idea of a trade. Let's see what we come up with. You can come with major league ready players to, but make it make sense. I'm going to come up with a few as I look around the minors to see what some of these teams have. I say nobody is off limits either, if you think Berkman can be traded, then what's the price in return and what are you looking to get? I'm curious to see what types of GM talent we have on this board. Happy hunting. Who's going to take our leftfielder Fat Albert with the money he's guaranteed? He's a one-tool ballplayer being paid millions of dollars. Miguel Tejada finally admitted that he was older than what he was telling everyone. Problem is, I think he's even older than that. The amount of body fat he's carrying on that frame makes me wonder if he's not closer to 40 years old instead of 35. Then there is the problem that every scout thinks about when looking at Tejada. Is he having a bad year because the League finally scared him off the juice? Who would take him under those circumstances? As for the pitching staff, the only pitcher that would interest any other club down the stretch run is currently on the DL. Can you say "painted one's self in a corner"? "Yes, I am here in Cooperstown....This place, my field, my dream." -Gene Elston July 30th, 2006 - Ford C. Frick Award Acceptance Speech, Cooperstown, NY
Dak05		#3	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 1274 (07/21/2008 11:37 PM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	i still think they could get something (i.e. a A prospect) for Brocail... but that might just be wishful thinking...
zachdevil		#4	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 516 (07/21/2008 11:52 PM) ALL-STAR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Dak05 wrote: ummm... baseball tonight just said the astros are in discussion to get randy wolf from the phillies.... why? and for what? but berkman has to stay as he won't get you anywhere near equal value... Let's try and stick with the topic, which is give me names of players you want in return for the players you are going to trade. On that note you can get equal value for Berkman, it's a matter of putting the right deal together. I'd take guys like Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia etc off the Redsox if they want Berkman. You just have t know as GM what are you doing. Equal value, doesn't mean getting major league allstars for major league allstars, it means getting players that WILL at some point be major league allstar level players. If you packaged me a deal with Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia and maybe a Craig Hansen or one other player of worth I'd send Berkman and Brocail to the Redsox with no problem. 3 arms with top of the rotation type stuff plus an elite 2b. I make that deal in a heartbeat.
Bob Hulsey		#5	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 4372 (07/22/2008 12:25 AM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	A starting pitcher would be nice but Randy Wolf?? Doesn't he have "DL" tattooed on his bicep by now? "We don't do anything easy. We're the Astros." - Craig Biggio
danocaster		#6	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 297 (07/22/2008 12:28 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I was hoping that a spanking by the Pirates would keep them from having false hopes. No band-aids on gun shot wounds please.
polarbear1982		#7	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 34 (07/22/2008 12:47 AM) AAA Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'll bite. The Cardinals need relief pitching. Isringhausen has been terrible, and I don't think they trust Ryan Franklin. The Cards are only 2 games out. They have an outstanding CF prospect in AAA. I'd offer Jose Valerde AND Doug Brocail for Colby Rasmus. If Rasmus pans out as projected we'll have our CFer for the next 10 years...
zachdevil		#8	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 517 (07/22/2008 1:02 AM) ALL-STAR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	From Rotoworld on Randy Wolf: According to ESPN's Buster Olney, the Astros are in serious discussions with the Padres regarding Randy Wolf. The Astros are in fifth place, 12 games back of the Cubs in the Central and 10 back in the wild card. Also, they have probably the game's worst farm system. Trading one or two of their semi-prospects for a free-agent-to-be would just be another boneheaded move from a team with a deluded owner and an incompetent GM (or it could be the other way around). Maybe the Padres can steal Triple-A bound J.R. Towles as the return.
rdkapp		#9	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 2058 (07/22/2008 1:15 AM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	zachdevil wrote: . . . . On that note you can get equal value for Berkman, it's a matter of putting the right deal together. I'd take guys like Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia etc off the Redsox if they want Berkman. You just have t know as GM what are you doing. Equal value, doesn't mean getting major league allstars for major league allstars, it means getting players that WILL at some point be major league allstar level players. If you packaged me a deal with Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia and maybe a Craig Hansen or one other player of worth I'd send Berkman and Brocail to the Redsox with no problem. 3 arms with top of the rotation type stuff plus an elite 2b. I make that deal in a heartbeat. Well, I think you'd be crazy not to make that deal, but I don't think there's any way the Red Sox would do that deal. Why would they? They don't even need Berkman. I could see the Bosox offering up Youkilis and either Lester or Buchholz (but not both) for Berkman, and as an Astros' fan, I would want more for Berkman, but I don't see the Red Sox as our trading partner for Berkman. As for answering the question, I don't know enough about other teams' prospects other than the obvious ones already on the major league teams, but I will tell you that I think the Astros ought to hang on to Oswalt and Berkman, unless they are blown away by an offer (like the one you put forth above), and that the only players that should bring significant talent in return are Lee, Tejada, Pence, and Valverde, and Lee is pretty much untradeable. The Astros have other tradeable players (i.e. Loretta, Brocail, Wigginton, and Erstad) but the talent they will get in return will not be sure things, IMO. Hence, I don't think the task of rebuilding will be very easy.
NYAstrosFan		#10	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 133 (07/22/2008 5:00 AM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hate to do it......but Roy Oswalt when he comes off the DL to Boston Michael Bowden, Daniel Bard, and Oscar Tejada
NYAstrosFan		#11	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 134 (07/22/2008 5:02 AM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	polarbear1982 wrote: Jose Valerde AND Doug Brocail for Colby Rasmus. If Rasmus pans out as projected we'll have our CFer for the next 10 years... Well, I would do this deal in a heartbeat if I was the Astros
Flastrohs		#12	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 19523 (07/22/2008 5:54 AM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	zachdevil wrote: From Rotoworld on Randy Wolf: According to ESPN's Buster Olney, the Astros are in serious discussions with the Padres regarding Randy Wolf. The Astros are in fifth place, 12 games back of the Cubs in the Central and 10 back in the wild card. Also, they have probably the game's worst farm system. Trading one or two of their semi-prospects for a free-agent-to-be would just be another boneheaded move from a team with a deluded owner and an incompetent GM (or it could be the other way around). Maybe the Padres can steal Triple-A bound J.R. Towles as the return. Amen Rotoworld. There's your problem right there. Until the owner sells the team and someone chokes Wade out of baseball, expect more of the same. Bad team w/an owner that needs to go. It starts from the top down. When does the NFL start????????
Clack		#13	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 14845 (07/22/2008 7:36 AM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I would stand pat on trades until the off season. The only guys who have a lot of value will not be traded because they will not approve a trade. I would not trade Valverde unless it was an overwhelming return...mostly because he is still under team control, and the team will end up having to made another trade in the off-season to acquire a closer if he is traded now. That would be different if the Astros had anyone in the minors who looked like they could step into the closer role. After watching Gervacio, it seems to me that he is quite a ways from being able to fill any kind of late inning role on a big league club. As for trading for Wolf, I'm would say "no" unless you give up almost nothing for him. (This isn't surprising, though, since the Astros have always liked Wolf and tried to sign several times over the last couple of years.) Towles for Wolf? I agree that is insanity. I think Wigginton may be the best of the Astros trade candidates right now. If the Dodgers would give up LaRoche for him, I would do it; but that is doubtful.
Phenomenal Smith		#14	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 1413 (07/22/2008 8:30 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Astros are a team with almost no talent younger than 30, and they're rumored to interested in an often injured pitcher who will be 32 next month? Say it ain't so! Listen to my radio station (please).
lloydinnit		#15	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 266 (07/22/2008 8:41 AM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	trade 'em all for a sack of mixed vegetables.
Dak05		#16	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 1276 (07/22/2008 8:51 AM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	zachdevil wrote: Let's try and stick with the topic, which is give me names of players you want in return for the players you are going to trade. On that note you can get equal value for Berkman, it's a matter of putting the right deal together. I'd take guys like Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia etc off the Redsox if they want Berkman. You just have t know as GM what are you doing. Equal value, doesn't mean getting major league allstars for major league allstars, it means getting players that WILL at some point be major league allstar level players. If you packaged me a deal with Lester, Buchholz, Pedroia and maybe a Craig Hansen or one other player of worth I'd send Berkman and Brocail to the Redsox with no problem. 3 arms with top of the rotation type stuff plus an elite 2b. I make that deal in a heartbeat. Well at the time, I was just saying it doesn't look like they'll be selling if they are trying to get Wolf. I think Theo would be nuts to do that deal. The Red Sox offense will be fine when Ortiz comes back. I mean they are 1st in the AL in BA, BBs, and OBP, 2nd in SLG. They're 2nd in a lot of other categories too. In fact, the only thing they aren't 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in, are strikeouts (5), caught stealing (8), hrs (4), and triples (7). The team as a whole is OPS+ 111. (and they did that without Ortiz for awhile). They need relief pitching more than they need Berkman. I don't think you can move Berkman for equal value even for some prospects that "at some point be major league allstar level players" because I don't think any team would give up that much to get him (today's front runners are on to cheap and young players). One player maybe of that caliber and a bunch of "potential" that might be a starter some day. Plus, I really don't think Wade can get anything of decent value in return. If Billy Beane were running things, yea, trade Berkman, but Wade? Not a chance. Sort of the same boat I think for Oswalt. Wade's track record thus far in trades is far from acceptable. Do I trust Wade to get something of value for guys like Brocail, Wiggy, Loretta, Erstad? Sort of. He may not get the best deal, but I think he would get something acceptable. However, now, I'm not sure they'll even do any of that. Plus, people suggesting trading one or more of those guys may be overestimating the values those guys have to other teams in contention, but I think he should be able to move one of them, but for what? No clue really. But I'm sure it'll probably be some throwaway Phillies project... heh.
leedoc		#17	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 538 (07/22/2008 11:52 AM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	zachdevil wrote: From Rotoworld on Randy Wolf: According to ESPN's Buster Olney, the Astros are in serious discussions with the Padres regarding Randy Wolf. The Astros are in fifth place, 12 games back of the Cubs in the Central and 10 back in the wild card. Also, they have probably the game's worst farm system. Trading one or two of their semi-prospects for a free-agent-to-be would just be another boneheaded move from a team with a deluded owner and an incompetent GM (or it could be the other way around). Maybe the Padres can steal Triple-A bound J.R. Towles as the return. If it's for Towles, I'm officially turning off the tv for the rest of the season in protest (I can't quit going to games since I live in Austin, though I could quit going to RR games). Trade the only possible sort-of-major-league-ready prospect in the organization for a craptastic lefty who doesn't pitch well away from a pitcher's park? Add to that being well out of the playoff race with most of the league ahead of you...including 3 teams in your own division? What the F*** is Ed Wade smoking? I want some because it must be good.
cheo25		#18	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 131 (07/22/2008 12:31 PM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well, Towles hasn't exactly lit it up. What's astonishing is that the Astros have given him 133 at-bats to hit .143. No one else hitting .150 or less with 50 or more at bats has more than 77. Towles has hit well in September, but the game is littered with September phenoms who never did anything else in the bigs. What's more is that the Astros' first-round pick was a catcher and if he progresses through the system, Towles won't have much shelf-life in the organization hitting .143 at the MLB level. I'm not saying Towles will never do anything, but I think he needs to needs to stay at AAA for the rest of the season for his own self-preservation. His at-bats Sunday and his body language were those of a guy who doesn't belong in the big leagues right now and knows he doesn't belong. And I'm not sure I would let this guy stand in the way of making a deal, though trading for Randy Wolf is just a bad idea. Last Edited By: cheo25 07/22/2008 12:35 PM. Edited 1 times.
tvcats		#19	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 205 (07/22/2008 2:13 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'd trade Cecil Cooper for anyone. Someone from this board want a managing job? This team is going nowhere fast with the management they've got. There is some good players out there. But there is a morale problem. I blame it on Cooper.
rdkapp		#20	[-]
Astros Fan Posts: 2060 (07/22/2008 6:12 PM) Astros Fan Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	tvcats wrote: I'd trade Cecil Cooper for anyone. Someone from this board want a managing job? This team is going nowhere fast with the management they've got. There is some good players out there. But there is a morale problem. I blame it on Cooper. Not that I'd give Cooper glowing marks, but I blame it on Uncle Drayton and Wade, in that order. Cooper is a rookie manager, still learning the ropes, who was put in a bad position as the 1st year manager of a deteriorating major league baseball franchise with a meddling owner and a questionable GM who is probably in place as a puppet for the meddling owner and his first mate, Tal Smith.

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It's offically time to sell.....

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